How dare you use the Bible to say out-of-body experiences are wrong!
Question:
I recently read a question/answer between you and somebody who wrote to you. They told you about their OBEs (out-of-body experiences). I read your response and I was appalled, to say the least.
First of all, since you don't remember your OBEs (and believe me, you have them) you discount them. Plus, you twist the Scriptures to make it sound like people have OBEs are doing things wrong. I felt very sorry for the person that you wrote to - fearing he or she would be so trodden down by your judgments that they'd try to shun the very real experiences they are having.
But the thing that upset me the most was when you quoted the Scripture about how "God doesn't lie". Yes, there are several Scriptures, actually, that claim that God doesn't lie. But I'd like to say that even THAT is a lie from God. How? Well, let's just start with my favorite (and I'll let you search for the rest....they're in there): II Thessalonians 2:11, "And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie..." This scripture clearly states that God lied. Look up the definition for "delusion" if you don't know what it means. Oh, but there's that word "lie" right after in the same sentence. And since Christianity believes that God doesn't lie and would cease to be God should he lied, then POOF. There goes your religion.
Please don't throw the old "you took this scripture out of context" number at me, either. I'm very well versed in the scriptures. I think you should stop misleading people with a book that clearly has so many contradictions in it that can't be claimed to be taken out of context. You are leading way too many people astray. To take a god that lies and claims he doesn't like it and then use it against another human being that is having very real experiences is cruel, heartless, and irresponsible!
Answer:
What I notice is that you offer no proof that out-of-body experiences occur. You assert that it is a fact, you even claim that everyone has many experiences with them; yet, you give not a single shred of evidence. Instead, like most people who have no factual evidence, you instead attack the sources that prove you wrong. But even if you could prove the Bible wrong (which you didn't), let's note that this does nothing to support your claim.
"The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness" (II Thessalonians 2:9-12).
This passage does not say that God lied to people. It says that God sends (or permits) people, who have no love for the truth, to be deluded by lies. In other words, if you have no love for truth, then you are easily persuaded by anyone who tells you a lie because you have no standard to judge whether something is factual or not. This passage tells me that when dealing with a person, such as yourself, who thinks she knows something and no evidence to the contrary will make her question her firmly held beliefs, then there is little I can do for you.
Question:
If you actually think that an old book that has been written by mere men who lived thousands of years ago and has been revised and manipulated for gain by wicked people (proven), is actually the "word of god" and you're using that right now against me saying that's your "proof," then I have to just burst out laughing. As "usual," Christians like you throw out what they're guilty of. In your case, you're telling me I have no proof of my words, but where is your "proof" that the Bible is true?
You prove to me that the Bible is true and then you can throw out this mindless drivel. Don't bombard me with warm fuzzies or the "witness of the spirit" or any of the other buckets full of fun little fake proofs that Christians are always spraying on people.
Hey, since you also threw out that Scripture about the "lawless" one... "Satan"... how about you prove that he's real. Don't use the Bible as your proof, until after you prove that the Bible is the truth. Come on...real proof. Not one person has been able to prove that it's true. Ever. Sure, they claim to ... but they haven't done it. Everything is perception, sir... everything. You are seeing through your filter because you've been around that kind of thing and you've embraced it. So of course this kind of thing (Bible) is going to be "true" for you in your perception.
Your (mis)interpretation of the Scripture that you believe I've misinterpreted is also laughable. The scripture clearly states that God sent the delusions (lies). Sure, he apparently could have wanted to prove that people are easily deluded by lies. But my point remains true: God did the lying. Prove to me that this isn't right.
I get so tired of you Christians claiming you have "the" truth and how you're always throwing out the "prove it" to me excuses. Do you think you're the first one that hasn't thrown this out? I've seen it so many times. I've heard it so many times I could lip-synch to it. That, and all the other excuses like "you took that out of context" or "God really means this or that". Sure he did ... did he tell you that? It's all just your perceptions of what you think he means or said. But if you look at the sentence in the scripture, he doesn't dance around that issue. He said he sent delusions (lies) so the people would believe lies.
Since you refuse to look at the real truth, let me show you some other lies of "god" in your Bible:
LIE:
"Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven" (Matthew 18:19).
LIE:
"Whatever you ask in my name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the son. If you ask me anything in my name, I WILL DO IT" (John 14:13).
Don't throw other scriptures out to deny this ... like ones where it says that you have to have faith or believe, or be saved, or any other added things. I'm talking about these two. He very specifically says what he will give you, especially in the second scripture in John. Now tell me why so many Christians have asked their god to save them or their husbands or wives or babies from cancer, or starvation, or cruelty, or any number of things ... or even let them get a car because theirs broke down. It appears to me that your god is a liar and to say this is not true makes you a liar as well. Don't say "sometimes god says no because he knows what is best for us". No. This scripture says I WILL DO IT. (Nothing added.)
Your Bible has thousands of contradictions in it. I've studied them extensively over the years. Try taking a good look for yourself instead of throwing out this nonsense and hurting good people.
Answer:
How amusing to have someone get upset that the preacher they are writing to actually believes the Bible he teaches is true. I didn't bother with proofs regarding the Bible because your contention was that out-of-body experiences were true. I merely pointed out that your attempt to prove the Bible false doesn't support your argument. That still remains true. I then showed that you did not correctly understand a verse that you cited.
But since you asked for proof regarding the truth of the Bible, see:
- On Using the Bible to Prove the Bible
- The Historical Accuracy of the Bible
- How May We Know the Bible is of God?
- Why I Believe the Bible Is God's Only Revelation
- Why Believe in the Bible?
When Jesus said, "And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If you ask anything in My name, I will do it" (John 14:13-14), Jesus was not saying he is at each person's command. That would place God between conflicting requests. The key is the phrase, "in my name." It means asking for things that Jesus authorizes. That is why the next verse says, "If you love Me, keep My commandments" (John 14:15). If you asked for things you wanted and got whatever you wanted, that would glorify you. But if we ask for things that God approves of, then that gives God the glory.
In Matthew 18:18-20 Jesus is stating that the church has the authority to uphold the laws of Christ. It is not stating that the church has the right to create its own laws and that God would go along with whatever they decide. The literal reading of the Greek is that "Whatever you bind on earth has been bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth has been loose in heaven." In other words, when the church follows Christ's directives, the decisions they make will follow the decisions already established by God.
When two or three are gathered under the authority of Christ (that is, in his name), then Christ would be there with them. The decisions they make will be upheld by God. Again, this is not a blank check to make their own laws. It is the assurance of the king that when his people uphold his laws, the king would back them up with his authority. This, then, is the answer to the age-old question, "What right do you have to tell me what I need to do?" When disciples are upholding the laws of their Lord, they have the authority of the Lord behind them.
I understand that you won't accept these proofs and explanations. But because you personally reject them doesn't mean they weren't given or that they are inadequate. I'm sorry that you would rather rage than think. But as Paul said in II Thessalonians 2:9-12, I can't convince someone who is determined to reject the truth.
