Baptism, the Godhead, and the King James Bible
Question:
Hey, are you the person that is behind the answer on the La Vista Church of Christ website? Surprisingly, it looks like you have very sound doctrine, which, of course, is very rare to find considering how many false prophets and teachers there are that exist.
Answer:
[Note: "Then the Pharisees went and plotted together how they might trap Him in what He said. And they sent their disciples to Him, along with the Herodians, saying, "Teacher, we know that You are truthful and teach the way of God in truth, and defer to no one; for You are not partial to any" " (Matthew 22:15-16). I didn't send this in my reply, but I figured I was being "buttered up."]
Yes, Jeff Hamilton is the preacher and elder who maintains La Vista's website, answers most of the questions, and writes many of the studies and sermons on the site.
Question:
OK, awesome. Let me ask you this because I am on the website right now. When you guys say baptism is in the authority of Jesus, do you call on the name of Jesus Christ during baptism? It's not clarified on the website. If you have a video of a baptism, I'd love to see it. Of course, I am referring to water baptism here.
Answer:
When baptizing someone, I usually say "in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit" as per Matthew 28:18-20. I had one person who insisted on being baptized in the name of Jesus only, which makes no difference since the Godhead is in agreement. See Calling on the Name of the Lord.
Question:
Do you believe there are three in the Godhead? I see you said the Godhead is in agreement.
Answer:
Doesn't Matthew 28:18-20 prove that? But see The Trinity: God Is Three in One for further proof.
Question:
Let me ask you this, are there three persons inside of the Son of God? Colossians 2:9 in the King James Version says "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." The Scriptures say all the fulness of the Godhead dwells in him, bodily. It's very clear from the Scripture that Jesus Christ is not a part of the Godhead, but it's reversed. The Godhead dwells in him.
Answer:
[Note: It is more than clear that the person was looking for an argument. He was not reading any of the supplemental material links I sent. Now he is asking questions about what the material clearly states. He isn't interested in learning.]
You are misreading Colossians 2:9. Paul is saying that the Godhead is fully represented in a bodily form through Jesus. See Indwelling. Dwelling means where you live, who you closely associate with, or where you take your stand.
Question:
I can see you don't believe the scriptures as they are written. No scripture is to private interpretation, you are to believe it only according to as it is written. In II Corinthians 4:13, King James Version, "We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak." If you have the same spirit of faith as the apostles, then according as it is written, you will believe. And it's very clear that all the fulness of the Godhead dwells inside of Jesus Christ. And, yes, dwelling is where you live. The Godhead dwells inside of Jesus Christ, meaning it lives inside of him. The Godhead is the Spirit of the Father, which is the Holy Ghost.
Answer:
"For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form" (Colossians 2:9 NAS95). The word 'inside' does not appear in the passage. You added it to make it fit your belief.
Question:
You know that's not the word of God. Anything other than the KJV, is not the word of God. And it's quite funny you say I'm adding things when you're referring to a Devil-inspired version to make your beliefs fit.
Answer:
[Note: The questioner has now proven that he is dishonest. He started out complementing the sound answers on La Vista's website. Yet, I quote from the New King James and the New American Standard mostly. If he was on the website, as he claimed, he would have known this before contacting me.]
So what Bible did the early church use prior to 1611?
Question:
Tyndale, Geneva Bible, and others that are accurately translated. What you are posting is not accurately translated at all, and has many errors. I don't think you believe the KJV is the Word of God so there's no point really in continuing this discussion.
Answer:
[Note: He's contradicted himself again. Earlier he claimed that anything other than the King James Version is not the word of God.]
While the questioner doesn't want an answer, let's look at Colossians 2:9.
"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority" (Colossians 2:8-10 NASB'95).
"See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ. For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form, and in Him you have been made complete, and He is the head over all rule and authority" (Colossians 2:8-10 NKJV).
"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power" (Colossians 2:8-10 KJV).
What dwells in Christ? Paul said, "the fullness of the Godhead" or "the fullness of Deity." Thus, it is not God Himself, but the fullness of the Godhead. The Greek word pleroma refers to something that fills, complements, makes something complete. For example:
"For this reason I bow my knees before the Father, from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name, that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man, so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love, may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth, and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God" (Ephesians 3:14-19).
Paul's desire is that we become like God, being filled with all the strength, faith, love, and knowledge that is found in God. For Christians, it is a worthy goal that will never be fully obtained. "And He gave some as apostles, and some as prophets, and some as evangelists, and some as pastors and teachers, for the equipping of the saints for the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ; until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fullness of Christ" (Ephesians 4:11-13). But for Jesus, it wasn't a goal. He had already embodied the fullness of the Godhead, even while in human form.
The use of the Greek adverb somatikos, which means bodily or in bodily form, is believed to have been used by Paul to counter the rising Gnostic belief that Jesus wasn't physically present in this world. Gnositics had the idea that anything physical was corrupt so Jesus, who was perfect, could not have physically been here. John also mentions this false belief: "Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God; and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world" (I John 4:1-3).
This dwelling of God in Jesus is not one-sided. "Jesus said to him, "Have I been so long with you, and yet you have not come to know Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father is in Me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on My own initiative, but the Father abiding in Me does His works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me; otherwise believe because of the works themselves" (John 14:9-11). If you see Christ, you see the Father. If you see the Father, you see Christ. Though they are not the same divine person, they are totally united in agreement.
Since Jesus fully represents the Godhead, we become partakers through Him. "For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace" (John 1:16). "For by these He has granted to us His precious and magnificent promises, so that by them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world by lust" (II Peter 1:4).
Notice, then, that the KJV, the NASB, and the NKJV are in complete agreement in regards to the translation of Colossians 2:9, and their translations are in agreement with the rest of the New Testament. The only person who is at odds is our questioner who tried to claim that Jesus is not deity. See Jesus Is God.
