{"id":36417,"date":"2013-01-11T19:22:00","date_gmt":"2013-01-12T01:22:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/?p=36417"},"modified":"2024-11-12T11:56:52","modified_gmt":"2024-11-12T17:56:52","slug":"does-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics-not-apply-to-the-earth-since-it-is-an-open-system","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/does-the-second-law-of-thermodynamics-not-apply-to-the-earth-since-it-is-an-open-system\/","title":{"rendered":"Does the second law of thermodynamics not apply to the earth since it is an open system?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\t

Question:<\/h2>\n

My friend converted to atheism. I told him what you said about the second law of thermodynamics, and he said, that only applies to a closed space. He seems to have a comeback for every defense I have. He’s always wanting to debate me, prove me wrong, it’s like a lion attacking a zebra. I’m pretty defenseless against his arguments, especially since he lives next door to me. His jokes are so rude, “I’m sorry I don’t believe in an invisible man in the sky.” It’s just annoying. I don’t know what to tell him. He seems to know every trick in the book. What do I tell him?<\/p>\n\t

Answer:<\/h2>\n

A chemistry teacher in high school told me the same thing about the second law of thermodynamics. There was just one problem: he was wrong.<\/p>\n

“The Second Law of Thermodynamics states that “in all energy exchanges, if no energy enters or leaves the system, the potential energy of the state will always be less than that of the initial state.”” [“Laws of Thermodynamics<\/a>“].<\/p>\n

“The Second Law of Thermodynamics is commonly known as the Law of Increased Entropy. While quantity remains the same (First Law), the quality of matter\/energy deteriorates gradually over time. How so? Usable energy is inevitably used for productivity, growth and repair. In the process, usable energy is converted into unusable energy. Thus, usable energy is irretrievably lost in the form of unusable energy.” [“Second Law of Thermodynamics<\/a>,” All About Science].<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

As long as additional usable energy is not added to a system, the net energy always decreases. So the question is: is the universe an open or closed system? In other words, is there additional useable energy being added to the universe? The answer is that the universe is a closed system. It has no additional energy being added.<\/p>\n

When something is called a “law” in science, it means it “generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law.” [Anne Marie Helmenstine, Ph.D., “Scientific Hypothesis, Theory, Law\u00a0Definitions<\/a>“].<\/p>\n

The claim is that because the Earth gets energy from the sun, it is an open system. This is a fascinating claim because then how could people have made observations that entropy always increases while remaining on earth? In other words, how could the second law of thermodynamics be discovered and shown never to be violated in a system that appears to become more orderly because energy is being added to it?<\/p>\n

The second law of thermodynamics states that you can’t create a perpetual motion machine because, eventually, you’ll run out of usable energy. But if the earth is an open system where entropy could increase, then we should have observations of such things, as well as building a perpetual motion machine that would at least keep running until the sun gave out. But there are no observations of this! The second law of thermodynamics has never been observed to be incorrect. Therefore, open or closed, the law remains true.<\/p>\n

The reason is simple: As soon as you add an energy source, it becomes part of the system being observed. The Earth is open to energy from the sun, but if you consider the sun and the Earth as a system, you are back to a closed system.<\/p>\n

Usually, it is argued that life can harness incoming energy and create order. That is true to an extent. The net entropy still increases because, eventually, the organism dies. It can organize incoming energy but only to a limited extent. Life can be viewed as a machine designed to increase order temporarily, but in the long run, it becomes more disordered. See: “Second Law of Thermodynamics – Does this basic law of nature prevent Evolution?<\/a>“<\/p>\n

What is glossed over is that adding energy doesn’t increase order. You can’t blow up a junkyard (adding energy) and get an airplane. An increase in order means there is guidance and a plan that harnesses the energy. The plan in life is found in the DNA, but even that plan decays over time through mutations. Evolution claims the plan becomes more orderly, but there is no observation.<\/p>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Question: My friend converted to atheism. I told him what you said about the second law of thermodynamics, and he said, that only applies to a closed space. He seems to have a comeback for every defense I have. He’s always wanting to debate me, prove me wrong, it’s like a lion attacking a zebra.…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_seo_schema_type":"","footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[20],"tags":[184,80,474],"class_list":["post-36417","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-answer","tag-atheism","tag-evolution","tag-science"],"jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":97158,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/the-evidence-of-nature\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":0},"title":"The Evidence of Nature","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"August 8, 2026","format":false,"excerpt":"by Elton Trueblood,\u00a0The Logic of Belief, p. 158-159 via\u00a0Sentry Magazine, Vol. 22, No. 1, March 1996 \"The chief strength of atheistic naturalism has lain in the notion that the material world needs no explanation, external to itself, that it is, indeed, a perpetual motion machine, which had no beginning and\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Notes"","block_context":{"text":"Notes","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/notes\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":28713,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/if-carl-sagan-was-the-worlds-smartest-man-shouldnt-he-have-a-compelling-argument\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":1},"title":"If Carl Sagan was the world’s smartest man, shouldn’t he have a compelling argument?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"September 1, 2011","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: You ever look at Carl Sagan reasons why he doesn't believe in the Christian God, since he's the world's smartest man he should have a compelling argument? [A link to a video clip of Sagan was then given]. Answer: \"For the word of the cross is foolishness to those\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":35884,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/did-adam-and-eve-have-six-fingers\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":2},"title":"Did Adam and Eve have six fingers?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"November 17, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: In my genetics class today, my instructor said that the dominant gene for the number of fingers on a human is six, meaning five fingers is a recessive gene. This startled me because does that mean Adam and Eve had six fingers, and if that was dominant, then wouldn't\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":45520,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/the-law-of-non-contradiction\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":3},"title":"The Law of Non-Contradiction","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"July 14, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"by Joshua Gurtler First published in\u00a0Biblical Insights Magazine, May 2015 The Law of Non-Contradiction Argues for the God of the Bible and Against Atheism, Hinduism, and Buddhism There is an argument for God that I would like for you to consider. This argument says that without the Christian worldview (which\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":57582,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/is-there-a-god\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":4},"title":"Is There a God?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"January 2, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"by Keith Sharp In 1986 a famous visitor made a brief tour of the inner solar system. A luminous body with a long, faint tail hurried on its journey around the sun and returned to the recesses of space. The British astronomer Edmond Halley observed this phenomenon in 1682 and,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":69505,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/should-i-take-courses-that-teach-evolution\/","url_meta":{"origin":36417,"position":5},"title":"Should I take courses that teach evolution?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"August 29, 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Recently, I've been thinking about the future, how my life will be, and how my career affects me. I picked a job in botany. But after taking an online course, I feel utterly terrified. A lot of history is about the evolution of plants. 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