{"id":34636,"date":"2012-09-04T20:41:00","date_gmt":"2012-09-05T01:41:00","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/?p=34636"},"modified":"2021-04-27T20:53:43","modified_gmt":"2021-04-28T01:53:43","slug":"when-was-the-church-in-smyrna-established","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/when-was-the-church-in-smyrna-established\/","title":{"rendered":"When was the church in Smyrna established?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\n\t

Question:<\/h2>\n

Brother Hamilton,<\/p>\n

Our local fellowship of congregations has been impacted by the doctrine of Preterism, with a number of problems caused by one individual in particular who has garnered a small but aggressive group of followers holding to Max King’s teachings.<\/p>\n

In an article on your site, “70 A.D. ‘ism and the Date of Revelation by Carl A. Allen<\/a>” a reference is made with regard to evidence for the establishment of the Church of Smyrna. I have been researching this for some time, and happened upon your site and would greatly appreciate any information or source you have regarding such evidence. As you can imagine, this would greatly deflate the Preterist claim of an early date for the writing of John’s Revelation.<\/p>\n

I appreciate any information you can provide.<\/p>\n

God Bless!<\/p>\n\t

Answer:<\/h2>\n

Polycarp was a famous leader in the church at Smyrna and likely a part of the church at its founding or shortly thereafter. He wrote a document called “The Letter to the Philippians,” in which he mentions “But I have neither perceived nor heard any such thing among you, among whom the blessed Paul laboured, who are praised in the beginning of his Epistle. For concerning you he boasts in all the Churches who then alone had known the Lord, for we had not yet known him” [Polycarp,\u00a0The Letter to the Philippians<\/a>, 11:3]. Thus, it is concluded that Polycarp is saying that Smyrna had not yet known the Lord at the time Paul’s letter to the Philippians was written. Paul’s letter to the Philippians was written around A.D. 63. If John’s letter was written prior to A.D. 70, this would not have given a church much time to establish itself.<\/p>\n

Also, the church in Laodicea is described by John as being rich and lukewarm (Revelation 3:14-22). Paul mentioned the church in Colossians 2:1; 4:13,16 but he had praise for the church. Very likely the letter of Philemon is addressed to those in Laodicea as well (see The Letter to Laodicea<\/a>). The picture we get of the church is a small group meeting in Philemon’s home. It is known for its love and faith (Philemon 3). Colossians and Philemon were written around A.D. 63. It is also known that Laodicea had suffered an earthquake in A.D. 61. While it was wealthy enough to finance its rebuilding, it would have taken a while to recover. For John to write about a church having grown lukewarm and rich in just a few years after Paul talked about it in glowing terms doesn’t seem likely.<\/p>\n

The case for Ephesus is similar. At John’s writing, it had left its first love (Revelation 2:4). That certainly wasn’t true when Paul worked in Ephesus in the late fifties for 18 months, nor is it indicated when he wrote the letter to the Ephesians, at the same time Colossians and Philemon were written, around A.D. 63. If the church was hardening you would think there would have been some signs of it before Paul died if John wrote prior to A.D. 70.<\/p>\n

In each case, one could postulate that it might<\/em>\u00a0have happened, though very unlikely, but when you find a set of unlikely events all taking place together then it is a harder position to argue.<\/p>\n\t

Response:<\/h2>\n

Thank you!<\/p>\n

I have read Polycarp’s letter but did just a cursory reading of it. A closer reading would have paid dividends in this question. I greatly appreciate your response!<\/p>\n

Have a great day.<\/p>\n\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Question: Brother Hamilton, Our local fellowship of congregations has been impacted by the doctrine of Preterism, with a number of problems caused by one individual in particular who has garnered a small but aggressive group of followers holding to Max King’s teachings. In an article on your site, “70 A.D. ‘ism and the Date of…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[744,102],"class_list":["post-34636","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-answer","tag-preterism","tag-revelation"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":34638,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/70-a-d-ism-and-the-date-of-revelation\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":0},"title":"70 A.D. ‘ism and the Date of Revelation","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"April 27, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"by Carl A. Allen The doctrine of \"70 A.D.'ism\" demands that all the writings of the New Testament books be before 70 A.D. There is no way the books could be after that date. Their doctrine holds that the \"Second Coming of Christ\" occurred in 70 A.D. If there are\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":14927,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/did-the-jesuits-develop-preterism-and-futurism\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":1},"title":"Did the Jesuits develop preterism and futurism?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"May 15, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Is it true that 'preterism' and 'futurism' were Jesuit interpretations of prophecy that were contrived during the counter-reformation? I've read that in a couple of places and wondered what your study has led you to about that. Thank you. Answer: Preterism is the view that the prophecies concerning destruction,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":7430,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/should-all-prophecies-be-seen-as-fulfilled-in-the-past-preterism\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":2},"title":"Should all prophecies be seen as fulfilled in the past (preterism)?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"September 12, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: I appreciate your view, whatever it may be. I am not a \"full preterist\" at this point in time. I presume that you must have some interaction with others in your circle who do hold to the preterist view. At least we can say, that in this particular instance\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":46024,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/your-website-has-a-lot-of-information-on-preterism-and-homosexuality\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":3},"title":"Your website has a lot of information on preterism and homosexuality","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"September 20, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Hello, I stumbled across your website as I was trying to find information on refuting Preterism (AD 70 fulfillment). I have family members who recently found out about this, and are submerging themselves in Jonathon Welton's teachings. Your web page has a lot of information, I hope to look\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":13273,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/dating-the-book-of-revelation\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":4},"title":"Dating the Book of Revelation","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"October 16, 2007","format":false,"excerpt":"by Steve A. Hamilton The date when the book of Revelation was written has been a controversial subject for centuries. The insight I have gained and relate in this article is not likely to change the debate in favor of any certain date. However, after reading many different sources on\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":17040,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/could-hegesippus-have-been-mistaken-and-john-was-sent-to-patmos-in-a-d-70\/","url_meta":{"origin":34636,"position":5},"title":"Could Hegesippus have been mistaken and John was sent to Patmos in A.D. 70?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"December 15, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Ran into your article,\u00a0Dating the Book of Revelation, on the net.\u00a0 The Hegesippus evidence is actually addressed in John A. T. Robinson's \"Redating the New Testament.\"\u00a0 Both Domitian and Nerva were in Rome during 69 and 70 AD, while Vespasian and Titus were campaigning in Palestine.\u00a0 They had delegated\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34636","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=34636"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/34636\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=34636"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=34636"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=34636"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}