{"id":24049,"date":"2020-07-24T19:08:29","date_gmt":"2020-07-25T00:08:29","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/?p=24049"},"modified":"2020-07-24T19:08:29","modified_gmt":"2020-07-25T00:08:29","slug":"do-we-forgive-even-though-the-elders-refuse-to-change","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/do-we-forgive-even-though-the-elders-refuse-to-change\/","title":{"rendered":"Do we forgive even though the elders refuse to change?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\t

Question:<\/h2>\n

“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, \u2018I repent,\u2019 you shall forgive him<\/em>” (Luke 17:3-4).<\/p><\/blockquote>\n

After reading this passage, it causes me to believe that one does not forgive a brother if he sins against you until that brother repents and asks for forgiveness. Which to me is entirely logical since God does not forgive us until we have repented and asked for His forgiveness. Am I wrong in understanding the passage like this?<\/p>\n

My wife and I did not agree with clapping by the song leader in our congregation when he led songs and encourage others to clap. We met with two of the elders and expressed our view. We were told to “go on down the road” if we were unhappy. Since our children and grandchildren attend this congregation too we feel compelled to worship there to support them. Neither of the elders has ever asked for forgiveness. But maybe we were wrong in being offended by the clapping.<\/p>\n\t

Answer:<\/h2>\n

In answer to the question about whether repentance is required for forgiveness, see\u00a0Does a person have to repent before you can forgive him?<\/a><\/p>\n

In regards to clapping in worship services, see\u00a0Should my objection to clapping during singing be respected as a weaker brother?<\/a><\/p>\n

The men you talked to are not convinced that clapping in worship is wrong; thus, they don’t believe they have anything to repent about. They made it clear that they aren’t concerned about your views and they are not willing to seek a way for all to worship together.<\/p>\n

If you are convinced that clapping is not authorized by God, why are you considering supporting family members in doing something that you consider to be wrong? God has to come before family. “He who loves father or mother more than Me is not worthy of Me; and he who loves son or daughter more than Me is not worthy of Me. And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me<\/em>” (Matthew 10:37-38).<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

Question: “Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, \u2018I repent,\u2019 you shall forgive him” (Luke 17:3-4). After reading this passage, it causes me…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[680,1571,50],"class_list":["post-24049","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-answer","tag-clapping","tag-forgiveness","tag-repentance"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":60416,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/three-quotes-on-forgiving-a-brother\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":0},"title":"Three Quotes on Forgiving a Brother","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"April 20, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"From Questions Answered, Lipscomb and Sewell, Kurfees, pg. 260 Question: If a brother in the church offends us, is it right for us to forgive him whether he comes and asks us to or not, or must we hold it against him until he comes and asks our pardon? Would\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":70001,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/forgiveness-without-repentance\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":1},"title":"Forgiveness Without Repentance?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"October 1, 2024","format":false,"excerpt":"by Mike Johnson via Seeking Things Above The Bible emphasizes the importance of forgiving those who sin against us. In fact, failing to do so is very frightening because, in Matthew 6:14-15, Jesus taught, \"For if you forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31349,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/if-a-brother-had-an-affair-for-five-years-and-says-he-repented-should-he-be-used-in-service-to-god\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":2},"title":"If a brother had an affair for five years and says he repented, should he be used in service to God?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"January 16, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: A brother had a five-year affair. His wife didn't know about the affair. He says he has repented. Can he work in the worship service and be one of the spiritual leaders? What does he need to do? Answer: \"If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":37851,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/why-wasnt-satan-and-his-angels-offered-forgiveness\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":3},"title":"Why wasn’t Satan and his angels offered forgiveness?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"March 17, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Hello, I just stumbled into your website. I have a question. God commands us to forgive and this I accept but my question is: Why did God not forgive Lucifer, the devil? We need to follow the examples of God. Is there a reason why God refused to forgive\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":34688,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/when-you-forgive-someone-are-you-required-to-continue-talking-to-them\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":4},"title":"When you forgive someone are you required to continue talking to them?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"September 10, 2012","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: When you forgive a Christian brother or sister who hurt you are we required to continue to talk and be friends with them like old times, like nothing ever happened? Or can we forgive and move on? Answer: \"And forgive us our debts,\u00a0as\u00a0we forgive our debtors\" (Matthew 6:12). \"And\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":37949,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/what-do-you-think-of-christians-who-find-it-hard-to-forgive\/","url_meta":{"origin":24049,"position":5},"title":"What do you think of Christians who find it hard to forgive?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"March 22, 2013","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: What do you think of Christians who find it hard to forgive and this prevents us from coming together. What can a Christian do to change his or her unforgiving spirit? How should Christians respond to other Christians who display a non-Christian-like behavior toward us? 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