{"id":13455,"date":"2007-12-26T21:19:09","date_gmt":"2007-12-27T03:19:09","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/?p=13455"},"modified":"2019-10-18T21:29:06","modified_gmt":"2019-10-19T02:29:06","slug":"it-seems-obvious-to-me-that-nicolaitans-refers-to-the-clergy-system-in-the-roman-catholic-church","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/it-seems-obvious-to-me-that-nicolaitans-refers-to-the-clergy-system-in-the-roman-catholic-church\/","title":{"rendered":"It seems obvious to me that Nicolaitans refers to the clergy system in the Roman Catholic Church"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\t

Question:<\/h2>\n

Regarding the word “Nicolaitan<\/a>“.\u00a0 Indeed many definitions from lexicons simply say something that doesn’t really lend any specific information to what it means.\u00a0 However certain things should be glaringly obvious here from the start.<\/p>\n

    \n
  1. It’s mentioned twice. Romans Catholics claimed it was just some short-lived sex cult with some guy Nicolas at the helm. But this seems rather absurd, that John’s revelation would contain not one but two such short-lived instructions. Given that this group and what it stood for is now quite obscured.\u00a0 And given that there was rampant sin throughout the church, it’s hard to imagine wasting the focus on something like this.<\/li>\n
  2. They were 200 miles apart — the churches of Ephasus and Pergama.\u00a0 Rather amazing that such a group being short-lived and all would have time to become so dominant in two areas so far apart.\u00a0 Especially since one of the mentions congratulates a group for hating this teaching what? A teaching not to fornicate?\u00a0 Like, dudes, fornication is mentioned at every turn as a sin to avoid. This isn’t much different than a cult that preaches that God is a munchkin or something.\u00a0 Give me a break.\u00a0 Yeah, we’re going to hate that teaching.\u00a0 Well, no brainer.\u00a0 No, I submit it’s something more sinister and deceptive and generally applicable that this prophecy is referring to.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

    What bears complete witness to me is the fact that the word ‘Nike’ means ‘conquer’.\u00a0 The word ‘laos’ means a group of people.\u00a0 What do we see arising as a common element of pretty much everything called ‘church’ by the ignorant world through history?\u00a0 Right.\u00a0It has a religious hierarchy.<\/p>\n

    Whether it be the pope down to the head pastor, someone functionally does the opposite of what elders are to do and they wind up lording over people.\u00a0 And the people love this because in general, it makes them feel that they don’t have to personally seek God and submit their lives to him.\u00a0 Rather this middle man becomes the focus.\u00a0 They pay him to be holy for them.\u00a0 And they raise him up as an idol of sorts.\u00a0 Some people eventually catch on, try to reason about the situation and of course get alienated.\u00a0 Because now they are a threat to the corporation.<\/p>\n\t

    Answer:<\/h2>\n

    Your reasoning is quite poor.<\/p>\n

      \n
    1. You don’t like the usage of lexicons for determining the meaning of the word, but then you do a word derivation, based on root words defined in lexicons, to draw wild speculations regarding what the word means. It would be equivalent to someone two thousand years in the future deciding that that “followers of Bush” were vegetarians because “Bush” can mean a plant.<\/li>\n
    2. The length of time a problem existed doesn’t indicate whether the instructions given were important or not. Based on your criteria, Paul shouldn’t have bothered to mention the man committing incest in I Corinthians 5 since that problem was solved before the II Corinthian letter was written (a very short time). Yet, fornication is a problem that continues to plague Christians today, though it is two thousand years later — but you find this too obvious.<\/li>\n
    3. Similarly, the range of people affected by the problem doesn’t indicate whether the instructions given were important or not. The first letter to the Corinthians was filled with local problems, but they were important for everyone to learn. You find it odd that two congregations both faced problems with the teachings of the Nicolaitans, but also state that the New Testament spoke extensively about the problem of fornication. Now either that problem was widespread or it wasn’t. And whether it was widespread or not, it doesn’t limit the importance of the subject.<\/li>\n
    4. You ignore the fact that Revelation 2 and 3 were written to seven churches regarding problems they currently faced with warnings (for most) to straighten up or be removed. Yet the clergy system didn’t begin to develop until 200 years after Revelation was written.<\/li>\n
    5. You ignore the fact that John states what the Nicolaitans taught: “But I have a few things against you, because\u00a0you have there those who hold the doctrine of Balaam<\/strong>, who taught Balak to put a stumbling block before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols, and to commit sexual immorality. Thus you also\u00a0have those who hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans<\/strong>, which thing I hate<\/em>” (Revelation 2:14-15). John states that the doctrine of the Nicolaitans and the doctrine of Balaam were equivalent. John also defines what doctrines of Balaam were under discussion: idolatry and fornication.<\/li>\n<\/ol>\n

      As pointed out, the name Balaam in Hebrew and the name Nicolas in Greek are equivalent terms. John is using a common technique of drawing a parallel between an Old Testament false prophet and a New Testament false prophet. Yet you dismiss the obvious because you have an agenda against the Roman Catholic church.<\/p>\n

      There are plenty of plain, obvious passages that show that the clergy system of the Roman Catholic church is wrong. Twisting passages is completely unnecessary to gain “meaning” unsupported by the context of the verse in which it is used from a word.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"

      Question: Regarding the word “Nicolaitan“.\u00a0 Indeed many definitions from lexicons simply say something that doesn’t really lend any specific information to what it means.\u00a0 However certain things should be glaringly obvious here from the start. It’s mentioned twice. Romans Catholics claimed it was just some short-lived sex cult with some guy Nicolas at the helm.…<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false,"footnotes":""},"categories":[20],"tags":[101,102],"class_list":["post-13455","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-answer","tag-nicolaitans","tag-revelation"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":579,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/who-were-the-nicolaitans\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":0},"title":"Who were the Nicolaitans?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"August 12, 2003","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Who were the Nicolaitans? Answer: The work \"Nicolaitan\" is only mentioned in\u00a0Revelation 2:6\u00a0and\u00a02:15. It comes from the Greek word\u00a0nikolaites\u00a0which literally means \"a follower of Nicolaus.\" Nicholas was a name used by some. For instance, one of the early deacons mentioned in\u00a0Acts 6:5\u00a0was called Nicholas (\"nicolaus\" in the Greek). Whether\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":23935,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/didnt-you-overlook-the-also-in-the-discussion-about-the-nicolaitans-in-revelation-215\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":1},"title":"Didn’t you overlook the “also” in the discussion about the Nicolaitans in Revelation 2:15?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"July 5, 2010","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: I was reading\u00a0your response regarding the nature of the Nicolaitans, their doctrine, and practice. Perhaps you may take the same issue with me that you do with the other commentator who did not offer an answer but rather a criticism. However, I hope you would pardon the simplicity of\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":3903,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/i-think-your-translation-of-nicolaitan-is-incorrect\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":2},"title":"I think your translation of Nicolaitan is incorrect","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"January 24, 2006","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: I did some research recently and I found your translation of the word \"Nicolaitan\" from the Greek\u00a0to be incorrect. From your incorrect translation comes further assumptions which logically begin a continued false set of observations and conclusions. I am not trying to be difficult, merely bring to your attention\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":63493,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/the-doctrine-of-the-nicolaitans\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":3},"title":"The Doctrine of the Nicolaitans","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"October 21, 2023","format":false,"excerpt":"by Terry Wane Benton Revelation 2:15 mentions the doctrine of the Nicolaitans and says that God \"hates\" that doctrine. Whatever it was, the church at Pergamos had members that taught this doctrine as well as the doctrine of Balaam (Revelation 2:14). Because of these doctrines in the church, God had\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Article"","block_context":{"text":"Article","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/article\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":14670,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wasnt-paul-a-nicolaitan\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":4},"title":"Wasn’t Paul a Nicolaitan?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"April 17, 2008","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: I first read\u00a0your article\u00a0rebutting someone\u2019s perspective on the Nicolaitans, then\u00a0your main article. I am a little confused with your logic. You said, \"You will find some who build complex arguments that the Nicolaitans came up with the clergy \/ laity system. It is all built around the fact that\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Answer"","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":31828,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/the-man-of-sin\/","url_meta":{"origin":13455,"position":5},"title":"The Man of Sin","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"March 9, 2014","format":false,"excerpt":"by Jeffrey W. Hamilton Text: II Thessalonians 2:1-12 \u00a0 I.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Have you noticed that when little is said on a particular topic that it generates more discussion than when much is said? \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0A.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0Of course, when little is said the range of possibilities is wide open. \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0B.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0It generates strong opinions (not truths,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In "Audio"","block_context":{"text":"Audio","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/audio\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13455","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=13455"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/13455\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=13455"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=13455"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=13455"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}