{"id":10441,"date":"2007-06-17T19:39:20","date_gmt":"2007-06-18T00:39:20","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/?p=10441"},"modified":"2019-09-24T19:44:24","modified_gmt":"2019-09-25T00:44:24","slug":"a-reader-who-doesnt-believe-the-gifts-of-the-spirit-have-ended","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/a-reader-who-doesnt-believe-the-gifts-of-the-spirit-have-ended\/","title":{"rendered":"A reader who doesn&#8217;t believe the gifts of the Spirit have ended"},"content":{"rendered":"\n\t<h2>Question:<\/h2>\n<p>Having read through some of the &#8216;answers,&#8217; I would like to point out that Paul talks about tongues of angels and men; therefore, there is a tongue of angels that we cannot understand but that the speaker speaks in mysteries to God. This is also why Paul encourages the Corinthians to covet prophecy while in a meeting in case no one interprets the tongue, the understanding being unfruitful. Furthermore, unbelievers coming into a meeting will get a personal message to help bring them to Christ in the tongue of men rather than the tongue of angels. Paul says that tongues are to edify oneself in the Spirit, who also intercedes, making groanings within, because we don&#8217;t know what to pray as we ought sometimes, but God wants to pray through us. All through the Bible, the supernatural occurrences were used to show the reality, power, sovereignty, and love of God. We need vitally the gifts today to supersede the supernatural in the world of darkness that the world is becoming so interested in. Indeed the prophecy about the last days and the antichrist who will show signs and wonders, we need to be able to override and expose these signs through the gifts and callings of God on our lives. Jesus said greater works will you do because I go to my Father.<\/p>\n<p>The gifts will pass away, but it doesn&#8217;t say when. I think the emphasis was on right order for the use of gifts and Paul was saying don&#8217;t be rude or puffed up or boastful in your use of the gifts, but show kindness and respect for each other&#8217;s gifts, put on love in everything you do.<\/p>\n<p>I believe that the gifts definitely bring blessing and fruitfulness. But if you&#8217;re going to get rude and unruly about it then there&#8217;s no love and it&#8217;s not God&#8217;s plan. The Corinthians were all prophesying at once. Paul continues to exhort the believers to covet earnestly the best gifts and to prophesy. In Acts, the apostles asked different believers whether they had received the Holy Ghost since they believed and they were filled and spoke with other tongues. The gifts will pass away when we reach heaven. It should not be assumed that they ceased in the days of Acts.<\/p>\n\t<h2>Answer:<\/h2>\n<p>I&#8217;ve read your statement over several times and I&#8217;m not sure I understand what point or points you are trying to make.\u00a0 The &#8220;tongue of angels&#8221; that you refer to and draw several points from is only found in I Corinthians 13:1, &#8220;<em>If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.<\/em>&#8221;\u00a0 Paul&#8217;s reference to the tongue of angels has no particular reference to what the language is or how it possibly could be used.\u00a0 However, it is just used to point out that even if you do speak the same language as the angels, you still have to have love in order to amount to anything.\u00a0 There is no indication in this passage that the language of angels is a special form of communication with God.\u00a0 God created all the languages (Genesis 11:9) &#8212; He does not need to favor one over another.\u00a0 It only says that there is an angelic language that exists.<\/p>\n<p>Your reference to the Spirit interceding on our behalf in prayers is found in Romans 8:26 &#8220;<em>In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express.<\/em>&#8221; This passage is not talking about miraculous gifts.\u00a0 The whole chapter makes no reference to speaking in tongues of any sort.\u00a0 In fact the concept of speaking in tongues does not even show up in the whole book of Romans.\u00a0 There is no indication here how the Spirit is able to accomplish this intercession.\u00a0 It is presumptuous on our part to assume that the Spirit uses the language of the angels to do it.\u00a0 He did not say that he uses that language or any language for that matter.\u00a0 Only the word &#8220;groans&#8221; is used.\u00a0 I can not logically leap from &#8220;groan&#8221; to &#8220;language of angels&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p>You also said, &#8220;God wants to pray through us.&#8221;\u00a0 I&#8217;m unfamiliar with that doctrine and it is not in the Bible.\u00a0 Prayer is by definition the act of an inferior being speaking to a superior being.\u00a0 God wants us to pray to him.\u00a0 I cannot even comprehend the implication of a God who has any need of praying through us.\u00a0 He has many ways to speak to us and He has chosen to speak to us through His Son.\u00a0 Hebrews 1:1-2 says, &#8220;<em>In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.<\/em>&#8221; I can find examples in the Old Testament of God speaking through the mouths of prophets, but at no time was it referred to as a form of prayer.<\/p>\n<p>You also say, &#8220;we need vitally the gifts today to supersede the supernatural in the world of darkness that the world is becoming so interested in&#8221;.\u00a0 Again I am lost on what you are trying to explain.\u00a0 Just because we have a perceived or even a real need does not mean that God &#8220;has to&#8221; deliver any particular solution.\u00a0 He is only obligated to fulfill the promises that He has made.\u00a0 It would be incumbent on us to prove from what He has said He would do before we can make claims as to what is necessary for Him to do for us.<\/p>\n<p>I know that it has been repeated several times on this site, but I Corinthians 13:8-10 still says, &#8220;<em>Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.\u00a0 For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears..<\/em>&#8221;\u00a0 If Paul&#8217;s meaning was something easily identified as an endpoint, he could have said so.\u00a0 His purpose was not to obscure any information but to reveal.\u00a0 If the &#8220;perfection&#8221; was meant to be &#8220;heaven,&#8221; then he could have said something more concrete like &#8220;the end&#8221; or &#8220;on Christ&#8217;s return&#8221;.\u00a0 He had to say something that has an indefinite time because the endpoint is subjective.\u00a0 The Word is also perfect because it is the mind of God.\u00a0 It can also be said to come to maturity (perfection) when it is completely revealed.\u00a0 However, none of us know when that was.<\/p>\n<p>In order for your interpretation to be true, the passage would have to mean, &#8220;Prophecy, tongues, and special knowledge will cease, but not until the end of the world.&#8221;\u00a0 What would be the purpose of such a statement?\u00a0 All things on earth will cease at the end of the world.\u00a0 It would go without saying that spiritual gifts would end at the end as well.\u00a0 Given that Paul had more to say than just that they would end at the end of the world, he had to explain that the special gifts that they had would cease when the full knowledge of what God would have us know was revealed.<\/p>\n<p>Darrell Hamilton<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Question: Having read through some of the &#8216;answers,&#8217; I would like to point out that Paul talks about tongues of angels and men; therefore, there is a tongue of angels that we cannot understand but that the speaker speaks in mysteries to God. This is also why Paul encourages the Corinthians to covet prophecy while&hellip;<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":1,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"advanced_seo_description":"","jetpack_seo_html_title":"","jetpack_seo_noindex":false,"footnotes":"","jetpack_post_was_ever_published":false},"categories":[20],"tags":[428],"class_list":["post-10441","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-answer","tag-gifts-of-the-holy-spirit"],"jetpack_featured_media_url":"","jetpack_sharing_enabled":true,"jetpack_likes_enabled":true,"jetpack-related-posts":[{"id":18563,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/speaking-in-tongues\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":0},"title":"Speaking in Tongues","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"January 17, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Text: Acts 2:1-11 \u00a0 I.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0I received several questions in recent days regarding speaking in tongues \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0A.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0People wanting to know what it was, what is the heavenly language, what is the unknown tongue \u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0B.\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0But probably more than anything else, they want to know if you must have the gift of tongues\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Sermon&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Sermon","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/sermon\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":83748,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/is-speaking-in-tongues-for-communicating-with-god\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":1},"title":"Is speaking in tongues for communicating with God?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"January 28, 2025","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: May God continue to strengthen you guys in Jesus' name. Amen. You may not be aware, but many issues arise with the topic of speaking in tongues here. A brother recently sent me some voice notes discussing speaking in tongues with a man. He explained that speaking in tongues,\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Answer&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":34016,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/were-the-prayers-in-i-corinthians-11-referring-to-praying-in-an-unknown-tongue\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":2},"title":"Were the prayers in I Corinthians 11 referring to praying in an unknown tongue?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"April 10, 2021","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Good day, Regarding I Corinthians 11:3-16, where women commanded to cover their heads while praying and prophesying. Some argue that the prayer mentioned in that verse was a miraculous activity connected with prophecy. God talked to man through the Spirit. In I Corinthians 14:14, Paul mentioned praying with an\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Answer&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":19627,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/why-doesnt-paul-clearly-state-that-tongue-speaking-is-useless\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":3},"title":"Why doesn&#8217;t Paul clearly state that tongue-speaking is useless?","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"July 25, 2009","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: God be a witness today, brother, if the Gift of Tongues is useful for the edification of our faith in Christ Jesus or not! I am sick and tired of all these divisions in the Body of Christ -- some say no, some say yes.\u00a0 If Tongues demonstrates no\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Answer&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":723,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/praying-in-a-heavenly-tongue\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":4},"title":"Praying in a heavenly tongue","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"November 11, 2003","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: Would you discuss the idea of praying in a heavenly language where the person is edified even though others don't know what they are saying? Answer: The mention of the language of angels is only found in\u00a0I Corinthians 13:1\u00a0where Paul states that speaking in any language is without benefit\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Answer&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]},{"id":46768,"url":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/the-unknown-tongue-in-i-corinthians-142-would-sound-like-mumbo-jumbo-to-you\/","url_meta":{"origin":10441,"position":5},"title":"The unknown tongue in I Corinthians 14:2 would sound like mumbo-jumbo to you","author":"Jeffrey Hamilton","date":"December 21, 2015","format":false,"excerpt":"Question: [Note: I left the following unedited since the author claimed to have the gifts of the Holy Spirit. He had asked that this not be published, but since there is nothing in the note that is personal to him, I decided it serves as a good example of what\u2026","rel":"","context":"In &quot;Answer&quot;","block_context":{"text":"Answer","link":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/category\/answer\/"},"img":{"alt_text":"","src":"","width":0,"height":0},"classes":[]}],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10441","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/1"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=10441"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/10441\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=10441"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=10441"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.lavistachurchofchrist.org\/cms\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=10441"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}